Thanks for writing this brother. Will be useful to refer/point to in the future.
My dumbed-down version (using the texts like you do) is just:
- If the Spirit 'only' proceeded from the Father, then (to our human brains) it would be hard to distinguish His eternal relation from that of Jesus (and in that scenario, what relation would the Spirit have to Jesus?)
- Rather, the Spirit is Himself (to our human brains) the very Person of love that exists between both the Father and Son, the love that equally proceeds from both Father and Son for each other.
- To be welcomed into the love of the Triune God via union is to be loved in the Son, by the Father, through the Spirit.
For a crude drawing:
Father <-> Loves [Spirit] <-> Son [We are positionally located via union]
(In my brain, being 'in the Son' denotes the love intrinsic to our 'one-flesh' union with the Son as part of His bride. So I'm not conceptually excluding being loved by the Son.)
All Gods “actions” are done through Jesus ……. Distinctions are NOT different persons
#1 "IRONICALLY", Trinitarians on one side & (JW & Islam-Muslims) on the other, are two opposite extrems of the SAME EXACT HERESY that makes Jesus a DIFFERENT PERSON.
Trinity is polytheisim no different then claiming the Greek pantheon are just different persons of the same “essance”, “substance” & or “Being” of the “one true God”… “LOOK MA, PAGANS ARE ACTUALLY MOTHEIST TOO, WE ALL WORSHIP ONE OUSIA” 🤡….demonstrates Trinitarians real faith is actually in a pantheon of three greater & lesser gods NOT monotheisim
THE SUBSERVIANT JESUS-GOD
“My father is greater then I”
“No man knows, only my father”
To Father: “THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD”
“I can of my own self do nothing”
THE SUBSERVIANT JESUS-GOD FORCES EITHER
A) ACCEPT JESUS AS A DIFFERENT LESSER GOD PERSON IN A PANTHEON TRINITY= three different persons with diffiferent minds, amounts of Knowledge, power & authority over each other.
OR
B) A DIFFERENT PART OF THE SAME PERSON IN A WAY LIKE YOUR HEAD & RIGHT ARM. (MODALISIM) - one person who is God manifested in different ways.
[THE ONE SENDING is THE ONE SENT!!]
Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses..and 👉MY SERVANT👈 whom 👉I👈 have chosen: that ye may KNOW and BELIEVE 👉me👈, and UNDERSTAND that
👉✝️I AM HE✝️👈........11 I, even I, am the LORD; and 💢👉BESIDE ME👈 THERE IS NO SAVIOR💢....13 Yea, BEFORE THE DAY was✝️I AM HE✝️;
John 8:24....IF YE BELIEVE NOT that ✝️I AM HE✝️, ye shall DIE IN YOUR SINS…. 28. ... LIFTED UP the Son of man, THEN shall ye KNOW that ✝️I AM HE✝️ .....58 Jesus said.....BEFORE Abraham was, ✝️I AM ✝️. 59 Then took they up stones...) 👈SPECIFIC TIME JESUS SPECIFICALY CLAIMS TO BE GOD & THEY UNDERSTOOD HIM PERFECTLY!!
“WHO” it was (what person) that came “IN THE FLESH”, IS THE DETERMINING FACTOR IN WHAT IT MEANS TO BE “ANT-CHRIST”! Even Islam claims Jesus was the Jewish messiah/Christ who was to come in the flesh. They all deny “WHO” (what person) came as Christ in the flesh!?!
1Jn 2:22...Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; …”
You cant claim to believe that "I am HE" if you believe Jesus is a different person because to you Jesus is not HE but "some other different person sent by Him"!?!
To deny father is to deny son because they are the same person in the flesh!
Psalms 118:16 💪THE RIGHT HAND💪of the LORD is ✝️EXALTED✝️
(John 17:1.., Father, the hour is come; ✝️GLORIFY thy Son,✝️ …:):
... THE 💪RIGHT HAND💪 of the LORD DOETH….. 22 THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REFUSED IS BECOME THE HEAD STONE OF THE CORNER…
ISAIAH 52:6.. MY PEOPLE SHALL 🎯KNOW MY NAME🎯 therefore they shall know IN THAT DAY that ✝️I AM HE✝️ that doth speak: 👉behold, IT IS I👈. .. FEET OF HIM THAT BRINGETH 😇GOOD TIDINGS😇,… 10. THE LORD HATH MADE BARE 💪HIS HOLY ARM💪..
John 8:24....IF YE BELIEVE NOT that ✝️I AM HE✝️, ye shall DIE
Why would “Christians” denounce head & right arm as just metophore & heresy while appealing to obscure abstracts “confessed” as “incomprehensible”?
In garden…God said ye shall die…Satan states no you will be more WISE……his children say no "three in one" is more WISE & humility of God’s grandeur, the “incomprehisable” mystery of “true faith”🤡
I’m not anchored in any position on this question so I appreciate your article. However, it seemed like you avoided the Orthodox objections to the filioque.
What of their claim that this idea creates an imbalance in the Trinity with the Son’s existence being totally dependent upon His being begotten of the Father (one source) while double procession proposes two sources (the Father and the Son) for the procession of the Spirit?
Thanks for writing this brother. Will be useful to refer/point to in the future.
My dumbed-down version (using the texts like you do) is just:
- If the Spirit 'only' proceeded from the Father, then (to our human brains) it would be hard to distinguish His eternal relation from that of Jesus (and in that scenario, what relation would the Spirit have to Jesus?)
- Rather, the Spirit is Himself (to our human brains) the very Person of love that exists between both the Father and Son, the love that equally proceeds from both Father and Son for each other.
- To be welcomed into the love of the Triune God via union is to be loved in the Son, by the Father, through the Spirit.
For a crude drawing:
Father <-> Loves [Spirit] <-> Son [We are positionally located via union]
(In my brain, being 'in the Son' denotes the love intrinsic to our 'one-flesh' union with the Son as part of His bride. So I'm not conceptually excluding being loved by the Son.)
very sound and clarifying. This gut is terrific when not too esoteric.
Thanks!
Why would we need two pumps from the same well?
All Gods “actions” are done through Jesus ……. Distinctions are NOT different persons
#1 "IRONICALLY", Trinitarians on one side & (JW & Islam-Muslims) on the other, are two opposite extrems of the SAME EXACT HERESY that makes Jesus a DIFFERENT PERSON.
Trinity is polytheisim no different then claiming the Greek pantheon are just different persons of the same “essance”, “substance” & or “Being” of the “one true God”… “LOOK MA, PAGANS ARE ACTUALLY MOTHEIST TOO, WE ALL WORSHIP ONE OUSIA” 🤡….demonstrates Trinitarians real faith is actually in a pantheon of three greater & lesser gods NOT monotheisim
THE SUBSERVIANT JESUS-GOD
“My father is greater then I”
“No man knows, only my father”
To Father: “THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD”
“I can of my own self do nothing”
THE SUBSERVIANT JESUS-GOD FORCES EITHER
A) ACCEPT JESUS AS A DIFFERENT LESSER GOD PERSON IN A PANTHEON TRINITY= three different persons with diffiferent minds, amounts of Knowledge, power & authority over each other.
OR
B) A DIFFERENT PART OF THE SAME PERSON IN A WAY LIKE YOUR HEAD & RIGHT ARM. (MODALISIM) - one person who is God manifested in different ways.
[THE ONE SENDING is THE ONE SENT!!]
Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses..and 👉MY SERVANT👈 whom 👉I👈 have chosen: that ye may KNOW and BELIEVE 👉me👈, and UNDERSTAND that
👉✝️I AM HE✝️👈........11 I, even I, am the LORD; and 💢👉BESIDE ME👈 THERE IS NO SAVIOR💢....13 Yea, BEFORE THE DAY was✝️I AM HE✝️;
John 8:24....IF YE BELIEVE NOT that ✝️I AM HE✝️, ye shall DIE IN YOUR SINS…. 28. ... LIFTED UP the Son of man, THEN shall ye KNOW that ✝️I AM HE✝️ .....58 Jesus said.....BEFORE Abraham was, ✝️I AM ✝️. 59 Then took they up stones...) 👈SPECIFIC TIME JESUS SPECIFICALY CLAIMS TO BE GOD & THEY UNDERSTOOD HIM PERFECTLY!!
“WHO” it was (what person) that came “IN THE FLESH”, IS THE DETERMINING FACTOR IN WHAT IT MEANS TO BE “ANT-CHRIST”! Even Islam claims Jesus was the Jewish messiah/Christ who was to come in the flesh. They all deny “WHO” (what person) came as Christ in the flesh!?!
1Jn 2:22...Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; …”
You cant claim to believe that "I am HE" if you believe Jesus is a different person because to you Jesus is not HE but "some other different person sent by Him"!?!
To deny father is to deny son because they are the same person in the flesh!
.....THE BASTARD CHILD JESUS?
https://substack.com/@allendaves/note/p-205079622?r=1xhldx
MODALISIM OR DIE IN SINS
Psalms 118:16 💪THE RIGHT HAND💪of the LORD is ✝️EXALTED✝️
(John 17:1.., Father, the hour is come; ✝️GLORIFY thy Son,✝️ …:):
... THE 💪RIGHT HAND💪 of the LORD DOETH….. 22 THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REFUSED IS BECOME THE HEAD STONE OF THE CORNER…
ISAIAH 52:6.. MY PEOPLE SHALL 🎯KNOW MY NAME🎯 therefore they shall know IN THAT DAY that ✝️I AM HE✝️ that doth speak: 👉behold, IT IS I👈. .. FEET OF HIM THAT BRINGETH 😇GOOD TIDINGS😇,… 10. THE LORD HATH MADE BARE 💪HIS HOLY ARM💪..
John 8:24....IF YE BELIEVE NOT that ✝️I AM HE✝️, ye shall DIE
Why would “Christians” denounce head & right arm as just metophore & heresy while appealing to obscure abstracts “confessed” as “incomprehensible”?
In garden…God said ye shall die…Satan states no you will be more WISE……his children say no "three in one" is more WISE & humility of God’s grandeur, the “incomprehisable” mystery of “true faith”🤡
20pg “CLIFTS NOTES”
https://www.scribd.com/document/844419833/20-Page-Summary-PDF-1
"CHILDEREN OF A LESSER GOD"
https://allendaves.substack.com/p/children-of-a-lesser-god?utm_source=share&utm_med
#2 JESUS ISNT COMMING BACK …BUT A STRONG DELUSION MIGHT
https://allendaves.substack.com/p/the-man-of-sin-a-falling-away666the?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1xhldx
https://allendaves.substack.com/p/the-gospel-simultaneous-doom-and?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1xhldx
https://substack.com/@allendaves/note/c-286164394?r=1xhldx
Thanks for this work. Is there any synergy in your thought with these conclusions I have been trying to articulate?
https://intentionaldisciplesofjesus.substack.com/p/following-the-holy-spirit-and-jesus
Possibly, it looks like you may be gesturing towards the external processions of God.
I’m not anchored in any position on this question so I appreciate your article. However, it seemed like you avoided the Orthodox objections to the filioque.
What of their claim that this idea creates an imbalance in the Trinity with the Son’s existence being totally dependent upon His being begotten of the Father (one source) while double procession proposes two sources (the Father and the Son) for the procession of the Spirit?
I think you can avoid the Arche problem by thinking of the Spirit coming through the Son from the Father.
read carefully, I do not see any imbalance but a harmony