Thanks for this. Well done. I am not convinced that John 6 is about the Table, but I really like your exegesis of Luke 24 and John 13-17. I think the Evangelical Church wing of which I am a part is in dire need of a more biblically faithful understanding of the Table. This article can help with that. And if the Table is as you point out here, then how can we be satisfied with once a month participation in it?
Well done. Since many of the traditions around the Passover Seder aren’t written down until the Talmud is compiled it is impossible to know which traditions were extant when they ate the Last Supper but I find some of those traditions to be fascinating.
When we compare the point where Jesus broke the bread at the Last Supper to the order of events at a Seder, the Jews would be breaking the middle matzah and wrapping half of it in a linen cloth to be retrieved later.
When Jesus raised the glass of wine after they were eating that would be the third cup of wine at a Seder. It has been called “the cup of redemption” for centuries.
This is a thoughtful reflection and it is amazing how the Passover traditions shine light on what Jesus was doing that night. Even though we cannot say every Seder detail was practiced exactly the same way in Jesus day the patterns that do line up make His actions even more powerful. When Jesus took the bread blessed it broke it and gave it to His disciples it mirrors the moment when the middle matzah is broken and part is wrapped away to be brought back later. Paul said Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us 1 Corinthians 5:7 showing He is the true bread broken buried and brought back in resurrection. Jesus said Take eat this is my body Matthew 26:26 and the broken bread becomes a picture of His willing sacrifice. When Jesus took the cup after supper it aligns with the third cup in the Seder often called the cup of redemption and Jesus declared This cup is the new testament in my blood which is shed for you Luke 22:20 showing that His blood is our redemption. Just as God redeemed Israel from Egypt with the blood of the Passover lamb we are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb of God. In whom we have redemption through his blood the forgiveness of sins Ephesians 1:7 Every symbol points to Him the true Passover the true Deliverer and the true Redeemer.
I’ve never heard it called that. The 4 cups are named after the 4 promises in Exodus 6:6-7 with the 3rd promise being “I will redeem you with an outstretched arm” so the name, “Cup of Redemption” matches the promise.
“The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a sharing in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a sharing in the body of Christ?”
1 Corinthians 10:16 NRSV
Scott Hahn and Brant Pitre, among others, have argued this is evidence, along with the Last supper text saying it was “after supper” (Lk 22:20), that the Eucharistic cup was the third cup, and that it is the cup of blessing, according to the Mishnah. I know there are dating issues cause we don’t know if the Mishnah, written after 1 Corinthians, was describing a new practice/title for the cup, or one that was in place at the time of the last supper.
Where have you seen it called the cup of redemption, and the connection to Exodus made explicitly? I want to look into that further.
It was called the “Cup of Redemption” at every Seder meal I have ever attended. I’m sure I have also read it in other sources. The names of all 4 cups and the fact that the names come from the 4 promises in Exodus 6:6-7 is often discussed at Messianic Seder meals. The 4th Cup - “The Cup of Ingathering” was never consumed by Jesus during the Passover. The go into the garden as a break from a long meal and Jesus is arrested. This is why Jesus says that He will not drink of the fruit of the vine until He returns. The promise of ingathering is still future.
Interesting. I’ve heard the fourth cup called the cup of consummation — and by the way, Christ did drink of the fourth cup on the cross. Is it possible the names have changed over time?
I know literally nothing about what happens at modern Seders, and if it’s different than the Seder around Christs time, I don’t really care what happens there. It seems what’s important is what the ritual was around the time of the Last Supper.
I’m not saying this is the case, but it’s entirely possible it was called the cup of blessing, for example, and then changed and justified by the verses in Exodus.
Many Haggadot and educational resources assign names to the cups based on these promises (names can vary slightly by tradition or edition, but they consistently map to the verses): torahresource.com
1. First Cup (Kiddush / Sanctification) — Corresponds to “I will bring you out” (hotzeiti). Often called the Cup of Sanctification.
2. Second Cup (after Maggid / storytelling) — Corresponds to “I will deliver/free you” (hitzalti). Often called the Cup of Deliverance or Salvation.
3. Third Cup (after the meal / Birkat Hamazon) — Corresponds to “I will redeem you” (ga’alti). Often called the Cup of Redemption (sometimes the Cup of Blessing due to the blessings recited over it).
4. Fourth Cup (Hallel / praises) — Corresponds to “I will take you as My people” (lakachti). Often called the Cup of Praise, Acceptance, Restoration, or Kingdom/Hope.
If Christ has what could be called “spiritual body and blood” in any meaningful sense, how can we know that his resurrection was not merely spiritual rather than bodily?
Pastorally speaking, it’s been my experience, especially these days, that most people take the word ‘spiritually’ to mean ‘virtually, not really, abstractly’ rather than ‘truly, really’.
I get that spiritually as opposed to physically is meant, but I’m not persuaded that it’s necessary to draw such a sharp contrast. It could (inadvertently) lead to a soft-gnosticism: material bad, spiritual good.
The Word became flesh and dwelt anong in Jesus Christ. Likewise, the reading and preaching of the word becomes flesh in the eucharist and dwells among us in the taking, eating, drinking, and participating in Christ’s body and blood, by faith.
Had a pastor who, just before communion, had every one get their smart phones out. “You have pictures of your family on your phone as remainders of your love for them. That’s what communion is.”
Indeed. The sad thing was that I think that he singularly failed to recognise the ecumenical nature of that particular church. It was an expat church with a large number of Americans and others on placement in the UK. It was a home from home sort of place - Lutheran, Baptist whatever in the US it was intended as a gathering for expats that anyone from any tradition could slot into. The pastor before him understood that.
God is omnipresent in capacity such that only God could prescribe a special prsence with a special gift of life for thoes who belive in & accept that presence. This is the whole point To Christ words. It was never about metophores or reenactment of sacrifice it was solely about faith in Him….faith in his words…… “my words are spirit, they are life” … the eucharist is not some canabalistic ritual or reenactment of anything. It is simply a divine presence in human flesh outlining his own authority & power of instilling a special presence & gift of life to thoes who accept His words. God is omnipresent but that fact does no one any good unless God himself grants special “privilege” ….. All other mystical transformations & explinations are MOOT and just sophistery pretending to be “insightful” looking into "deep mysteries". The only real “mystery” is why people are so mystified by the omnipresent God’s presence
……. But then again, everyone loves ghost stories while they sit around the campfire with the chills on the backs of their necks……. Its just rediculous and self affirming “mysteries” of “great piety”.
Many of the "mystical views" need to lay off the koolaid & just get back to basics
Thanks for this. Well done. I am not convinced that John 6 is about the Table, but I really like your exegesis of Luke 24 and John 13-17. I think the Evangelical Church wing of which I am a part is in dire need of a more biblically faithful understanding of the Table. This article can help with that. And if the Table is as you point out here, then how can we be satisfied with once a month participation in it?
Very good. Straightforward application of biblical texts. Great summary from Gallic Confession.
Thank you!
Well done. Since many of the traditions around the Passover Seder aren’t written down until the Talmud is compiled it is impossible to know which traditions were extant when they ate the Last Supper but I find some of those traditions to be fascinating.
When we compare the point where Jesus broke the bread at the Last Supper to the order of events at a Seder, the Jews would be breaking the middle matzah and wrapping half of it in a linen cloth to be retrieved later.
When Jesus raised the glass of wine after they were eating that would be the third cup of wine at a Seder. It has been called “the cup of redemption” for centuries.
This is a thoughtful reflection and it is amazing how the Passover traditions shine light on what Jesus was doing that night. Even though we cannot say every Seder detail was practiced exactly the same way in Jesus day the patterns that do line up make His actions even more powerful. When Jesus took the bread blessed it broke it and gave it to His disciples it mirrors the moment when the middle matzah is broken and part is wrapped away to be brought back later. Paul said Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us 1 Corinthians 5:7 showing He is the true bread broken buried and brought back in resurrection. Jesus said Take eat this is my body Matthew 26:26 and the broken bread becomes a picture of His willing sacrifice. When Jesus took the cup after supper it aligns with the third cup in the Seder often called the cup of redemption and Jesus declared This cup is the new testament in my blood which is shed for you Luke 22:20 showing that His blood is our redemption. Just as God redeemed Israel from Egypt with the blood of the Passover lamb we are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb of God. In whom we have redemption through his blood the forgiveness of sins Ephesians 1:7 Every symbol points to Him the true Passover the true Deliverer and the true Redeemer.
Pretty sure the third cup is called the cup of blessing, no?
I’ve never heard it called that. The 4 cups are named after the 4 promises in Exodus 6:6-7 with the 3rd promise being “I will redeem you with an outstretched arm” so the name, “Cup of Redemption” matches the promise.
“The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a sharing in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a sharing in the body of Christ?”
1 Corinthians 10:16 NRSV
Scott Hahn and Brant Pitre, among others, have argued this is evidence, along with the Last supper text saying it was “after supper” (Lk 22:20), that the Eucharistic cup was the third cup, and that it is the cup of blessing, according to the Mishnah. I know there are dating issues cause we don’t know if the Mishnah, written after 1 Corinthians, was describing a new practice/title for the cup, or one that was in place at the time of the last supper.
Where have you seen it called the cup of redemption, and the connection to Exodus made explicitly? I want to look into that further.
It was called the “Cup of Redemption” at every Seder meal I have ever attended. I’m sure I have also read it in other sources. The names of all 4 cups and the fact that the names come from the 4 promises in Exodus 6:6-7 is often discussed at Messianic Seder meals. The 4th Cup - “The Cup of Ingathering” was never consumed by Jesus during the Passover. The go into the garden as a break from a long meal and Jesus is arrested. This is why Jesus says that He will not drink of the fruit of the vine until He returns. The promise of ingathering is still future.
Interesting. I’ve heard the fourth cup called the cup of consummation — and by the way, Christ did drink of the fourth cup on the cross. Is it possible the names have changed over time?
I know literally nothing about what happens at modern Seders, and if it’s different than the Seder around Christs time, I don’t really care what happens there. It seems what’s important is what the ritual was around the time of the Last Supper.
I’m not saying this is the case, but it’s entirely possible it was called the cup of blessing, for example, and then changed and justified by the verses in Exodus.
Many Haggadot and educational resources assign names to the cups based on these promises (names can vary slightly by tradition or edition, but they consistently map to the verses): torahresource.com
1. First Cup (Kiddush / Sanctification) — Corresponds to “I will bring you out” (hotzeiti). Often called the Cup of Sanctification.
2. Second Cup (after Maggid / storytelling) — Corresponds to “I will deliver/free you” (hitzalti). Often called the Cup of Deliverance or Salvation.
3. Third Cup (after the meal / Birkat Hamazon) — Corresponds to “I will redeem you” (ga’alti). Often called the Cup of Redemption (sometimes the Cup of Blessing due to the blessings recited over it).
4. Fourth Cup (Hallel / praises) — Corresponds to “I will take you as My people” (lakachti). Often called the Cup of Praise, Acceptance, Restoration, or Kingdom/Hope.
If Christ has what could be called “spiritual body and blood” in any meaningful sense, how can we know that his resurrection was not merely spiritual rather than bodily?
Pastorally speaking, it’s been my experience, especially these days, that most people take the word ‘spiritually’ to mean ‘virtually, not really, abstractly’ rather than ‘truly, really’.
I get that spiritually as opposed to physically is meant, but I’m not persuaded that it’s necessary to draw such a sharp contrast. It could (inadvertently) lead to a soft-gnosticism: material bad, spiritual good.
The Word became flesh and dwelt anong in Jesus Christ. Likewise, the reading and preaching of the word becomes flesh in the eucharist and dwells among us in the taking, eating, drinking, and participating in Christ’s body and blood, by faith.
We all know he was THERE. Just before he got his stupid ass arrested for raising a failed revolt.
Had a pastor who, just before communion, had every one get their smart phones out. “You have pictures of your family on your phone as remainders of your love for them. That’s what communion is.”
I haven’t been back to that church since then.
!
Indeed. The sad thing was that I think that he singularly failed to recognise the ecumenical nature of that particular church. It was an expat church with a large number of Americans and others on placement in the UK. It was a home from home sort of place - Lutheran, Baptist whatever in the US it was intended as a gathering for expats that anyone from any tradition could slot into. The pastor before him understood that.
THE LOGICAL IMPARITIVE.
“for in Him we live move & have our being”
God is omnipresent in capacity such that only God could prescribe a special prsence with a special gift of life for thoes who belive in & accept that presence. This is the whole point To Christ words. It was never about metophores or reenactment of sacrifice it was solely about faith in Him….faith in his words…… “my words are spirit, they are life” … the eucharist is not some canabalistic ritual or reenactment of anything. It is simply a divine presence in human flesh outlining his own authority & power of instilling a special presence & gift of life to thoes who accept His words. God is omnipresent but that fact does no one any good unless God himself grants special “privilege” ….. All other mystical transformations & explinations are MOOT and just sophistery pretending to be “insightful” looking into "deep mysteries". The only real “mystery” is why people are so mystified by the omnipresent God’s presence
……. But then again, everyone loves ghost stories while they sit around the campfire with the chills on the backs of their necks……. Its just rediculous and self affirming “mysteries” of “great piety”.
Many of the "mystical views" need to lay off the koolaid & just get back to basics
https://allendaves.substack.com/p/the-eucharist-the-body-and-blood?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1xhldx
20pg CLIFTS NOTES VERSION
https://www.scribd.com/document/844419833/20-Page-Summary-PDF-1
SEE ALSO:
HIS NAME = THE WORD = THE SPIRIT= THE COMMANDS & DOCTRINE
ALSO WHY:
FAITH v WORKS = MOOT
WATER v HOLY SPIRIT FIRE = MOOT
NEARLY ALL “CHRISTAINS” FAIL TO UNDERSTAND BASIC FOUNDATIONAL DOCTRINE
https://allendaves.substack.com/p/the-name-of-god-cannot-be-pronounced?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1xhldx
https://substack.com/@allendaves/note/c-286164394?r=1xhldx
This is beautiful. Very happy I stumbled upon this and was reminded of the many ways that Christ is with us spiritually.